GUI vs. command line recorder

Originally Posted by elch

Really? I was able to download *all* streams with either wget, msdl, MPlayer or VLC I've encountered so far.

I see fewer questions about it right now, but there were lots of problems with Windows Media streams. Some of them use authentication and password protection, and some of them use Windows Media Playlists. Take a look at iransima.ir for example.

Another problem is with HTTP streams, that use anti-leeching methods. Some of them can't be downloaded with the programs mentioned above. Although you can copy the streams from the cache of your browser.

Originally Posted by elch

Splitting and tagging is of course a different topic. That's very stream-dependent. I've given it up years ago because most streams just don't get it. Many streams send their tags delayed (ca. 5-10s is not uncommon). Some streams even put crap like the channel name into it. It's nearly impossible to have an application that covers all these cases. And if I really wanted to record such stream, I'd just try to write a script for it. I don't like bloat and a GUI application with 1000 switches and buttons to make it for the user as simple as possible to download streams just for the sake of having a graphical interface. Still, they'd need a tutorial because the application is so complicated but if a Windows user encounters a much simpler command line tool with fewer options, they'll start complaining...

Shoutcast rippers work fine most of the time. Besides analyzing ID3 tags changes, they can analyze pauses between music tracks. Of course when you have overlapping, the recording becomes much more difficult. But I'm not really interested in the songs that I can't record fully.

It reminds me the problems I see with Linux. Many programs are free, so developers stop working on them after a while, because they need to earn on their living.

And another problem is that for most users it is really hard to learn new things, especially if they require logical thinking and programmers' ideology while it can be so simple for a developer. It is even hard for users to switch from MS Office to Open Office, although their are pretty identical.

Developers of commercial GUI programs not only earn money for their living, but also provide services such as support and tutorials. Even if it is complicated for newbie, you can usually expect some kind of help. Of course services vary a lot on software vendor.

Originally Posted by elch

Ok, maybe you're right. I'm still not truly convinced because audio streams use the same protocols as video streams ...

Basically we are talking about the same thing. The same protocols are used. The only difference is that non-recordable and DRM protected streams are either recorded by screen video capture software or direct sound recording software

Originally Posted by elch

I've never needed rtmpsrv so far. It's just for debugging purposes or when you want to set up your own RTMP server. rtmpsuck is a Man-in-the-middle-attack (as known from SSL). It's for obtaining the parameters.

If I'm not mistaken, the latest version allows not only to get parameters, but also save the videos.

Originally Posted by elch

get-flash-videos is a tool that automates the process of extracting the RTMP parameters and downloads the stream afterwards. If you're stream hoster is supported by get-flash-videos, that's the way to go. But I don't use it because it uses Perl and it doesn't work too well if you're living not in the USA or UK like me. rtmpdump is really not difficult to use as long as you know how to get the parameters.

It is not difficult to use for an IT specialist. But I'm trying to help to newbies as well. Although I understand that this web-site is too technical.

Originally Posted by elch

That's a solution I'd only accept temporarily but when I decide to watch a TV station over a longer time, I definitely want the comfort of having a subscription list with series I fancy. As for BBC, I have a script that searches for new episodes. It generates a simple .sh file that serves as a queue. I can open it in VIM, uncomment episodes I don't want to download and then start the downloading with ./queue.sh I cannot remote-control a graphical user interface but I can do it with console tools.

That's really good. The problem is that newbies can't repeat your steps. It would be nice if everyone was able to do the same with a program using simple interface. Search, schedule, download.... and GUI (sorry, I don't really know how to make it more user friendly)

Originally Posted by elch

I totally agree. I don't like the command line either but it's the most simplest way to hack a program together. Designing GUIs takes much time and is so error-prone. Rolling out the first version of my BBC script took just a few hours, I wonder how much longer it would have taken with a GUI. The problem with command line is that most Linux guys see it as state-of-the-art. It's clearly not but it's easy to work with and great when automating tasks. As already stated, you can't automate a GUI the same way with the same flexibility as console applications. rtmpdump is only great when you use it as "backend" for downloading.

Originally Posted by elch

Why? Ok, that depends. For programmers, it's definitely worthwhile to look at existing protocols, what they do and how it's achieved. RTMP has definitely some nice aspects but it's overly complex. Adobe did some bad design choices but I'd rate RTMP just like HTTP. Both work but are far from being ideal.

Indeed it can be worthwhile for programmers.