[abrogard]

Thanks forkart (forkart?), I downloaded it (magiciso) and learned that it's only good for 300meg or somesuch in the trial. So I put it away. Incomplete trials turn me off. I very rarely come back to such software.

I've tried one or more of the other suggestions and don't now remember which, what or when. I do remember one of them wouldn't even read the drive - gave a couldn't read error and stopped. Seemed to have no better reading method than dvddecrypter or any of the 'normal' progs that I've been getting this problem with.

I'm back again to give it all another test. As I said, I've just looked at magiciso and I'll now check out the others.

FIRST I would really like to know what is the difference between my computer's dvd player/burner in player mode and the same instrument in 'ripper mode' that makes it able to play all these old dvd's but makes the 'ripper' software unable to rip??

That's the hub of the matter to my mind. What is going on there?

Even if I never, ever get any success copying these old dvd's I'd be a lot happier if I knew why it is that I can play them but the copiers can't copy them.

I just had a thought - maybe I should turn to streaming video copying software. Approach the problem from that end.

I'll keep the thread informed.

regards,

ab